David Attell

The lights in the Austin studio hum with a familiar warmth as Joe Rogan and Donnell%20Rawlings settle into a conversation that feels less like an interview and more like a long-overdue check-in between two veterans of the cultural front lines. The air is thick with the history of the comedy store, the lingering ghost of the pandemic, and the crackle of two minds trying to make sense of a world that increasingly favors the loud over the talented. It begins with the mundane—a discussion on digestive health and the impact of red meat on a 58-year-old body—but quickly spirals into a deep exploration of the human condition, the mechanics of fame, and the spiritual cost of modern engagement. The Biological Cost of the Grind Rawlings opens the dialogue with a vulnerability that is rare for a comedian known for his high-energy stage presence. He admits that his body is signaling a shift, a transition into what he calls the ‘geriatric’ phase of his life where dietary choices have immediate and painful consequences. This leads to a fascinating synthesis of health and perspective. Rogan, a long-time advocate for physical optimization, argues that the body and mind are inextricably linked. He posits that the mental fatigue many professionals feel is often just a physical system crying out for better fuel and more movement. They explore the idea of a ‘female handler,’ a partner who manages the complex pill diets and nutritional needs that come with age. While played for laughs, the underlying truth is a reflection on the necessity of community and care as we decline biologically. This isn't just about steak or vodka; it's about the realization that the invincibility of youth is a finite resource. Rogan pushes Rawlings toward the idea that getting the body right is the first step to getting the mind right. It’s an active-voice philosophy: you don't wait for motivation to strike; you build a body capable of hosting a motivated mind. The Cognitive Shadow of Nicotine and Marketing The conversation takes a sharp turn into the chemistry of habits, specifically the use of nicotine as a cognitive enhancer. Rogan details how writers, intellectuals, and academics have historically used nicotine to stimulate the mind, though he is quick to separate the drug from the delivery system. They analyze the history of American%20Spirit cigarettes, examining a lawsuit that questioned their ‘natural’ claims. The revelation that ammonia is added to maximize nicotine absorption serves as a metaphor for the deceptive practices inherent in corporate marketing. Rawlings brings a unique lens to this, discussing how certain brands like Newport and Pepsi specifically targeted the black community through generations. This is a deep dive into the psychology of loyalty and branding. They look at the ‘menthol effect,’ using Perplexity to uncover how the chemical numbs the throat, allowing for deeper inhalation and greater addiction. It’s a chilling look at how industries engineer products to bypass the body’s natural defense mechanisms. This leads naturally into a discussion on the sugar industry’s historical bribery of Harvard scientists to shift the blame for heart disease from sugar to saturated fat, a paradigm that shaped global health for decades. The Architecture of Modern Beef and Engagement As the dialogue shifts toward the entertainment industry, Rawlings expresses a profound weariness with the current state of comedy and social media. He observes that the ‘game’ has changed from being funny to being provocative. Platforms now prioritize ‘beef’ and negativity because they drive engagement. Rawlings and Rogan analyze why audiences gravitate toward train wrecks. Rogan suggests that those who spend their time tearing others down are usually ‘below’ the person they are attacking—it is a tool of the untalented to gain proximity to the successful. They discuss Katt%20Williams and his explosive interview style, which Rawlings finds confusing. He asks a fundamental question: what is the result? Does exposing the ‘snakes’ of Hollywood actually change the system, or does it just feed the cycle of negativity? This is the climax of the narrative—the realization that for many, the goal is no longer the craft itself, but the validation of the engagement metrics. Rogan’s response is a blueprint for mental hygiene: he views focus as a finite currency. If you spend 30% of your daily ‘points’ on haters, you have robbed yourself of the energy needed to create. The Ghost of the Pandemic and the Birth of a Hub The story moves into the transformative era of the COVID-19 pandemic. For Rogan and Rawlings, this wasn't a time of stagnation but a period of radical community building. They recount the ‘cornfield shows’ in Yellow%20Springs, Ohio, hosted by Dave%20Chappelle. This was a high-stakes experiment in creating a ‘bubble’ where art could still happen while the rest of the world was locked down. They reflect on the loss of Bob%20Saget and the vibrant energy he brought to those shows, noting how the experience reignited Saget's passion for the road. The pandemic also acted as the catalyst for the Austin comedy scene. Rogan explains that the migration from Los%20Angeles to Texas was a rejection of the poisoned atmosphere of fame-seeking that defines Hollywood. In Austin, the community is built on the craft, exemplified by Kill%20Tony, a show that gives undiscovered talent a platform to either sink or swim in real-time. This is the resolution: the creation of a new center for comedy that values the work over the image. Mastery, Narcissism, and the Definition of Success In the final movements of the conversation, the two explore the thin line between healthy ego and destructive narcissism. They use Marc%20Maron and Bill%20Burr as case studies. Rogan points out that when someone stops being happy for their friends' success, they have entered a state of bitterness that poisons their own art. He contrasts this with David%20Attell, a ‘comic’s comic’ who cares nothing for social media or arena fame, focusing entirely on the turnover of his material and the purity of the club set. Rawlings concludes with a lesson learned through decades of grinding: success is not the private jet or the mansion; it's reality. It's the ability to wake up and answer to no one. He recounts a defining moment at the Hollywood%20Bowl where he performed for only 700 people in an 18,000-seat arena because the crowd hadn't arrived yet. Instead of making excuses, he jumped off the stage and walked into the audience, turning a potential disaster into a masterclass in stagecraft. The lesson is clear: be undeniable. Whether the room is empty or full, whether the industry is changing or dying, the only thing a creator truly controls is the work. As the conversation ends, there is a sense of peace—two men who have survived the meat grinder of show business and come out the other side with their curiosity and friendships intact.